Fiercely Independent: An Interview with Jill Sobule
Fiercely Independent: An Interview With Jill Sobule
By Gabriel Ricard
Gabriel: A friend related an interesting story of something she saw at a concert of yours that she attended a few years ago. Where you were, I guess, halfway through a set and you started taking requests. And a lot of people in the crowd were calling for ”I Kissed A Girl.” Does that happen to you a lot? Does it bother you?
Jill: It doesn’t bother me, but I actually don’t get it that much. I think people coming to my shows have their own personal favorites. I don’t get it as much as you would think. And maybe at first it bugs me, because I’m so tired of playing it. But I’ve kind of re-embraced it. And maybe, that’s because I don’t get it as much. It was the only song I made a cent on, so why the hell not?
You know, it’s available as a ring tone.
I know. That’s kind of exciting.
Yeah, I looked you up on my cell phone, and that was the one song of yours that’s available for download.
Where’s that from?
Verizon.
Verizon. Okay, cool.
I wanted to ask you about your first album, Things Here Are Different, which was produced by Todd Rundgren. What was it like working with him? Was it pretty exciting to work with him for your first album?
Well, it was. But it also wasn’t the best thing for me to be in the studio for the first time with an icon. I was a little bit intimidated, and Todd doesn’t have the best social graces in the studio. He’s kind of a dick in the studio. I love him outside of the studio. I liked him as a friend. But he’s pretty strong, and he can fight back. So, it’s not all that great. I think that in a few years I would have been able to deal with him better than I did back then. Having him there for that first record might not have been the best idea.
Well, from there, you put out a second album. Which wasn’t released because I understand the first one didn’t sell very well. Is there any chance you’ll put that out now?
Maybe, I’ll put out a couple songs. I’ll just put them out my web site.
Are there any songs from there that you look back on and think “God, I really want people to hear that.”
Actually, it’s kind of a history that I didn’t want to get into. I completely shut it out. But a few months ago, I revisited a couple of the songs and thought that yeah, I’d like them to see the light again. You know what, it’s not a bad idea to put them on my web site.
And then of course, you went on to your third album, the self-titled one, which was the one that broke huge with songs like “I Kissed A Girl” and “I Wanna Be A Supermodel.” Were you surprised by how sudden that success came? Was it difficult to deal with?
It’s funny. I wish I could have dealt with it better. It was really surprising, especially with “I Kissed A Girl” because that was a song that was written in like five minutes as a kind of aside, as a kind of fun ditty. I didn’t actually think that would be on the record. Nor did I think that it would be the single. So, I think what was tough about was that your first song kind of brands you, in a way. Where do you go from that? I did a couple of tours with Warren Zevon, and that was kind of my “Werewolves of London”
And I’d say the other big thing about “I Kissed A Girl” was the music video.
Right, right.
That went over pretty big as well.
Yeah. I’m not the kind of person who listens to my CDs, watches to my videos. When I get a band together to rehearse the songs, I never know what the arrangements of the records are. But I revisited the video, and I have to say that it’s pretty funny. It was really well done, but it still kind of branded me.
It was on Beavis and Butt-Head, too.
Yeah, which is kind of great. They didn’t diss the record. They were just kind of like…(imitates the laugh for a second).
Yeah, I remember the whole thing was Beavis freaking out whenever you sang the main line.
It was really funny.
And then you followed that up with 1997’s Happy Town, which features my favorite song of yours, the darkly hilarious “Soldiers of Christ.” Unfortunately, the album didn’t connect with people the way the one before it had. Did that bother you?
Oh yeah. After the success of the first record, I wanted to do a record that maybe there’s a small, kind of rebellious, self-destructive side. I wanted to do a record that kind of would maybe be a little arty and not be exactly what the record company wanted. I loved Happy Town. It’s one of my favorite records. But I don’t think they knew quite what to do with it. It was darker.
Oh yeah, much darker. Definitely.
It was a dark-ass record (laughs).
Getting back to over to “Soldiers of Christ” for a second, I remember that when I was sort-of revisiting your music, that was one of the first songs my friend, the one who’s a big fan of yours, played that. And I just thought it was funny as hell. I live in Virginia, you know, so I meet people like that everyday.
The interesting thing about that is I guess someone came up to me on the street. They said “Are you Jill? My sister is a really hardcore evangelical Christian, and that they me played that song to try to get me to change.” She didn’t get it (laughs). It’s a song about having to be a soldier of Christ. It was pretty funny.
It’s even more poignant now with the whole Westboro Baptist Church thing, how they’ve gotten so much bigger in the last ten or so years. They’re planning to protest Heath Ledger’s funeral.
Yeah, that’s kind of crazy.
I just laugh at those people, personally.
That Westboro Baptist Church, they’re not good for the Christians (laughs).
They’re pretty scary.
Yeah, they’re crazy.
It seems to me that around the time Happy Town came out, that the mainstream interest in the whole female singer-songwriter thing was kind of dying out, and started going after like Spice Girls and Brittany Spears. Did you notice that, too? And if so, why do you think that was?
I think there was some kind of Lillith Fair backlash. I think it kind of coincided with the music industry and radio and consolidation and more Clear Channel. I think it coincided with the slow and slippery slide of the music industry, too.
I think it’s very much still around. And I think it’s definitely picked back up a little because of the Internet, but it also doesn’t seem like it’s gonna ever get really big in the mainstream again.
Well, there were some crappy woman singer-songwriters, too. There were a lot of reasons for a backlash.
Getting back to Warren Zevon for a minute, you did have the chance to tour with him on a couple of occasions. What was it like touring with him?
Before I went on, someone warned me that he was gonna be really unpleasant that I should give him his space. So, I did that for the first three concerts. And then he came into my dressing room and was like “Hey, what’s wrong with me? Why aren’t you hanging out with me?” He was just such a good support for me. And I was a big fan, too, so there was the intimidation factor. But he made me feel really comfortable and really good. And I always say you can tell people by how they treat waitresses and the opening acts. He was just so great.
From what I read in his book (I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead)—
Yeah, I’m having a hard time picking it up.
Well, you’re mentioned once, if I remember correctly. I don’t know if you knew that.
No, I didn’t.
Yeah, I believe your name popped up in one of his journal entries. But from what I’ve read in the book, it seems like he was always really good at being nice to a pretty lady. And you put that together with the fact that you’re such a great songwriter, and he was probably like “I gotta hang out with her.”
And we both appreciated the same kind of dry wit.
Oh yeah. Absolutely, because, I mean, he’d sing “I Kissed A Girl” with you in some of the shows.
Oh, it was hysterical. He’d sing (imitates Warren’s voice) “I kissed a girl,” like a pirate. It made no sense at all, but it was so great. And during his set, I’d come out and sing. We’d do a duet of “Jackson.”
I’ve been trying to hunt down a bootleg of one of those shows.
Oh, I bet you could. I have a newsgroup on my website, and they’re always trading things. If you email me, I think I’ve got a version of me singing “I Kissed A Girl” with him.
I’ve got a whole bunch of Warren Zevon shows and tragically, none of them have you. But they’re still good shows, going back to some of his performances in the 70’s. And then there’s some really great versions of my favorite Zevon song, which is “Splendid Isolation.”
I know. That’s beautiful. And I even liked some of the newer ones, like “For My Next Trick I’ll Need A Volunteer.” That’s such a great line.
Did you happen to speak to him before he died?
Here’s the funny thing as I remember it. He sent me a couple emails that were kind of saucy. He was a perfect gentleman when we were on tour.
Yeah, I wouldn’t doubt it.
But these emails were kind of saucy and kind of sexual in tone. And I’m thinking “You know, I’m gonna write it back and just give it back. Because it’s a dying man, come on.” (laughs) So, I have those kept. Maybe, one day I’ll put them out.
A lot of your albums feature character-driven material. And I’d say this was probably the most true on 2000’s Pink Pearl, which featured songs like “Mary Kay” and “Clare” and “Lucy at The Gym.” Do you prefer these types of songs to the more social-political stuff that you do?
I don’t know if I prefer them. It’s just what I happen to write at the time. They’re like little short stories. I don’t know if I prefer them, but it’s just what I came up with. There’s something great writing a story about someone else though.
You’ve also done a little bit of film work. Most notably, in the 2004 film Mind The Gap, which you also contributed some songs to. Do you enjoy acting? Is there anything else lined up?
No. It’s really hard. I finally have respect for people who do that. The thing about Mind The Gap was that I got to play a struggling singer-songwriter. I knew how to play that. I don’t know if I’d be good at anything else.
I dunno. I could see you playing “The friend” in something.
Yeah, I could do it. I just haven’t really pursued it.
I think I could also see you playing a really weird hippie.
I could do that. I definitely know how to play that. The other thing is that I have a cousin who produces Law and Order: SVU. And I always say to them that I want to play a dead person. I don’t have to memorize any lines. Just let me be a dead junkie or something.
I’ve always wanted to play a dead guy, too.
Yeah, it’d be really easy.
In 2004, you put out your most recent album, “Underdog Victorious,” which also includes another of my favorite songs of yours, the title track. I also feel like this might very well be your darkest album in terms of the characters and the songs. Would you agree with that at all?
Let me think about that. We have “Joey,” “The Last Line,” “Tender Love.” You’re right. There’s a dark underpenny under it.
And maybe with the title track as well. I always got the impression that the character in the song killed himself at the end.
I think he was just a sad little boy who had hope at the end. It could go either way though.
You’ve been on NPR’s The Bryant Park Project a few times, contributing songs on stuff like the writer’s strike and Halloween costumes. What’s that been like? It seems like it would be a lot of fun.
Oh yeah. It’s been really great. I’ve actually gotta come up with a Valentine song. They’re calling me for holidays and special occasions. And it’s good because it’s an assignment. There’s something kind of great about having an assignment, rather than I have to write a new song for my record. I can not do anything for a week. But with an assignment, you know? It’s always so last minute for me. But I’ve gotta this Valentine song. I’ve got a few weeks.
It’s thinking on the fly, too. That’s gotta be good, creatively.
Yeah, it’s fantastic.
I’m really curious about the Halloween song you did. I understand it’s kind of a critique on some of the more risqué outfits you can get. Which amuses the hell out of me, because I worked in a Halloween store a little, and those were easily the hottest selling items. Those really horrible fetish outfits.
It wasn’t so much that I was taking a moral tone. I could care less. In the end, if you’re playing a sexy zombie from outer space, now that’s a good costume. But it was just like putting bunny ears on your head and wearing lingerie, you know?
Yeah.
That’s not Halloween. Halloween’s supposed to be monsters.
Yeah.
Come on (laughs).
I think the worst ones were the ones I saw for girls’ ages 9-14. I don’t think I’ve ever seen quite such an obvious advertisement for child pornography.
Yeah, it’s not good.
Do you think that’s getting worse though? That whole thing of a twelve-year-old girl wanting to pretend she’s twenty. Because I don’t know how it is where you are, but out here, I don’t think we go more than a year without a twelve-year-old getting pregnant.
Maybe I’m stuck on either coast. L.A. or New York, and I just moved here (L.A.) two years ago, where you’ve got more of a savvy kid. But, yeah. That’s a whole other level.
Do you think it’s going back to that whole trend of music that started coming up in the late-90’s with Brittany Spears and the like?
I checked out the top-ten at ITunes and I was just like “Really?” Because there’s so much great stuff out there. More than ever, it’s kind of the long tail. It’s a really powerful period, but I guess there’s the American Idolization of the music going on, too. We’ve always had the Brittany Spears’ though.
Well, you’re working on a new album, which you’re currently taking donations for. How’s that going?
It’s going really, really good. It’s been about a week, and I just saw that I have thirty-one thousand.
Yeah, I noticed that for fifty you get a copy of the album and a thank-you note, and then at the top of the list, for ten grand, you get to play a cowbell.
Oh, I know. I haven’t gotten that one yet (laughs). That one really hasn’t enticed people. But it’s gone really, really great so far. You know, for five thousand dollars someone gets a house concert. The lowest one is the polished rock level, where you get an advanced copy of the CD. And then you can go all the way up to being thanked on the record, to getting your own theme song, to getting a key to a website where I’ll put up new songs and get your comments. It’s a really fun site. www.jillsnextrecord.com
You’ve also expressed interest in doing a live album. Any headway on that?
I think I’ll do that after I get this one done.
Would you just do one show or maybe mix it up with different tracks from different shows?
I don’t know yet. If you go on my website, there’s lots of shows. They’re not the greatest audio quality, but I have a Live at Joe’s Pub and stuff like that. What I’d probably do is do a couple nights and then put the best up.
Or what you could do is a compilation. Like a greatest hits, but maybe through the years. You could put in something with Warren, maybe something from the show you did with Julia Sweeney.
That would be really good. Although that would be something I’d maybe just want to put online. That would be a good bootleg album. But for a real live album, I’d want to get something with a better-controlled audio kind of performance.
Anything you want to close with?
Just send people to my web site and let them have fun with it.
Will do. Well, thanks for doing this with us.
Thank you. You take care in Virginia.
Well, you have fun in L.A. It’s no easy feat, but I’m sure you’ll manage.
Well, I’m trying.
Copyright C. 2008 Gabriel Ricard